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Di Korsel, Kristen jadi simbol nasionalisme & perlawanan terhadap penjajahan

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Di Korsel, Kristen jadi simbol nasionalisme & perlawanan terhadap penjajahan

Post by Rindu on Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:10 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_modernisation_theory#South_Korea

Modernisers in South Korea in the late 19th century were torn between the American and the Japanese models. Most of the Koreans involved were educated Christians who saw America as their ideal model of civilisation. However, most used Japan as a practical model - as an example of how a fellow East Asian country, which 30 years before was also backward, could succeed in modernising itself. At the same time, reformists' nationalist reaction against the domineering, colonial behaviour of the Japanese in Korea often took the form of an appeal to international (Western) standards of civilisation. The Western-oriented worldview of the early Christian nationalist reformers was complex, multilayered, and often self-contradictory - with 'oppressive' features not easily distinguishable from 'liberational' ones. Their idealised image of the West as the only true, ideal civilisation relegated much of Korea's traditional culture to a position of 'oriental'.[27]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_South_Korea#Christianity

Protestant missionaries entered Korea during the 1880s and, along with Catholic priests, converted a remarkable number of Koreans this time with the tacit support of the royal government.[5] Methodist and Presbyterian missionaries were especially successful. They established schools, universities, hospitals, and orphanages and played a significant role in the modernisation of the country.[24] During the Japanese colonial occupation, Christians were in the front ranks of the struggle for independence. Factors contributing to the growth of Protestantism included the decayed state of Korean Buddhism, the support of the intellectual elite, and the encouragement of self-support and self-government among members of the Korean church, and finally the identification of Christianity with Korean nationalism.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Korea#Korean_nationalism

One of the most important factors leading to widespread acceptance of Christianity in Korea was the identification that many Christians forged with the cause of Korean nationalism during the Japanese occupation (1910–1945). During this period, Japan undertook a systematic campaign of cultural assimilation. There was an emphasis on Showa, so the Koreans would revered the Japanese emperor. In 1938, even use of the Korean language was prohibited.[38] However, the distinctly Korean nature of the church was reinforced during those years by the allegiance to the nation that was demonstrated by many Christians. While the subsequent constitution of South Korea guarantees freedom of religion as well as separation of church and state, the South Korean government has been favorable to Christianity, regarding the religion as an ideological protection against their Communist neighbor.

pikirkan jg Thailand yg tidak dijajah negara2 Barat tp tidak memiliki sentimen terhadap Kristen & bahkan gak masuk sebagai negara penganiaya Kristen sementara negara2 penganiaya Kristen macem Indonesia, Malaysia, dlsb yg sentimen terhadap Kristen namun pd akhirnya dijajah negara2 Barat walaupun mereka sendiri gak masuk Kristen, & ketika merdeka malah gak maju2 macem Korsel

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Re: Di Korsel, Kristen jadi simbol nasionalisme & perlawanan terhadap penjajahan

Post by Rindu on Sun Feb 28, 2016 12:26 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_independence_movement#Religious_groups

Types of movements

There were broadly three kinds of national liberation groups: (a) the religious groups which grew out of the Korean Confucianist and Christian communities; (b) the former military and the irregular army groups; and (c) business and intellectual expatriates who formed the theoretical and political framework abroad.

Religious groups

Koreans brought Catholicism to Korea towards the end of the 18th century and faced intense persecution.[9] Methodist and Presbyterian missionaries followed in the 19th century starting off a renaissance with more liberal thoughts on issues of equality and woman's rights, which the strict Confucian tradition would not permit.[10]

The early Korean Christian missionaries both led the Korean independence from 1890 through 1907, and later the creation of a Korean liberation movement from 1907 to 1945.[11] Korean Christians suffered martyrdoms, crucifixions, burnings to death, police interrogations and massacres by the Japanese.[citation needed]

Amongst the major religious nationalist groups were:

Korean Presbyterian church
March 1 Movement
Korean YMCA

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Re: Di Korsel, Kristen jadi simbol nasionalisme & perlawanan terhadap penjajahan

Post by dee-nee on Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:17 pm

Ya iya lah ... wong Korsel butuh Amerika kok buat ngelawan Korut ....

Korsel merasa Korut is penjajah ... so Amerika yang membantu dia (melawan Korut) dianggap melawan penjajah

Padahal Amerika sendiri juga punya kepentingan politik untuk melawan Korut yang komunis

ketiwi

harusnya dibalik juga dong kondisinya ... Di Korut, komunis jadi simbol nasionalisme & perlawanan terhadap penjajahan Amerika (kristen)

ga ada bedanya lah ...

---------------------------------------

@Rindu wrote:pikirkan jg Thailand yg tidak dijajah negara2 Barat tp tidak memiliki sentimen terhadap Kristen & bahkan gak masuk sebagai negara penganiaya Kristen sementara negara2 penganiaya Kristen macem Indonesia , Malaysia, dlsb yg sentimen terhadap Kristen namun pd akhirnya dijajah negara2 Barat walaupun mereka sendiri gak masuk Kristen, & ketika merdeka malah gak maju2 macem Korsel

ga usah geer ... Thailand tidak diokupasi oleh Barat ... ya karena antara Rusia n Amerika (negara2 Barat) ini maju kena mundur kena untuk mengokupasi Thailand...

Kalau Amerika okupasi duluan >>> akan dilawan Rusia
Kalau Rusia okupasi duluan >>> akan dilawan Amerika

merah : anda merasa teraniaya di Indonesia ?? >>> ya udah ga usah tinggal di Indonesia ... gi dah pergi sana !!!!
wong kristen lain juga baik2 aja kok di Indonesia

FYI yah ... Indonesia ga butuh manusia yang bisa-nya cuma ngemis2 and ngedumel2 nyari eksistensi
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Re: Di Korsel, Kristen jadi simbol nasionalisme & perlawanan terhadap penjajahan

Post by Rindu on Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:00 pm

ngawur, nasionalisme Kristen di Korea udah ada bahkan sebelum AS nyari kepentingan disono

bahkan nasionalisme Kristen di Korea sendiri pd masa sebelum Cold War telah menyatukan korea

kakeknya Kim Il Sung sendiri bahkan adlh seorang PASTOR & ortunya adlh anggota gereja: http://northkoreanchristians.com/kim-ilsung.html

http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?num=7616&cataId=nk01300

Top Secret for North Koreans, Royal Family Was Christian Family

Kang Mi Jin | 2011-04-26 00:21

Many people do not learn of the Kim regime’s Christian heritage until reaching South Korea. North Korean defectors say that they understand why Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il have been afraid of religion’s spread even though their ancestors were faithful adherents to Christianity.

Kim Hyun Sik, a visiting professor at Yale University who defected in 1992 after serving as a Pyongyang College Professor of Education for 38 years, said that Kim Hyong Jik and Kang Ban Sok—Kim Jong Il’s grandparents—were devout Christians. But given that North Koreans live in a society that requires constant idolization of the Supreme Leader, and since outside communications and information are completely shut off, they are unaware of the Kim family’s history.

In North Korea, citizens are organized into three different classes based on their loyalty, or disloyalty to the regime and family background. Unsurprisingly, most religious North Koreans are classified as “hostile class,” placing them in the same group as political prisoners, anti-revolutionary factions, and their families. As a result, these people are routinely discriminated against in almost every aspect of life: entering university, finding employment, and becoming married.

Hyun Mi Kyung, a North Korean defector, states, "When I lived in North Korea I was not aware of that fact, but when I came to South Korea, I learned for the first time that Kim Il Sung's family was devoutly Christian."

Regarding the identification of Kang Ban Sok (1892-1932), Kim Il Sung’s mother and allegedly an elder of a church, Hyun commented that, “North Korean authorities educate and propagandize her as the mother of Chosun who gave birth to and raised the Great Leader of revolution, indomitable Champion of Communism Revolution, and even the champion who conducted the Chosun women's movement by establishing the anti-Japanese women's society organization, which was an independence movement group.”

Likewise, many North Korean defectors regard Kim Hyong Jik (1894-1926), Kim Il Sung’s father, as a patriot who spent his whole life fighting for revolution, and also a great pioneer who shifted the direction of the nationalism movement to communism, purportedly saving the country and its people.

In Kim Il Sung’s memoirs, “With the Century,” he references his parents’ church attendance by commenting, “They went to take a rest (at a church).” Citizens of North Korea are largely unaware of the fact that “Ban Sok”—the name of Kim Il Sung’s mother—comes from the name Peter, who was one of Twelve Apostles of Jesus. Furthermore, Kim Il Sung's uncle served as a minister, and his father, Kim Hyong Jik, was a devout Christian who attended Soongsil School, an undeniably Christian school.

Lee Hyung Sook, a 48-year-old North Korean defector who had settled in China but was repatriated to North Korea in 2007, said, “When I was repatriated to North Korea and received interrogation under the National Security Agency, their first question was 'did you attend a Christian church?' I could not understand why North Korea stifled religion in such a strong way, but when I came to South Korea, I pitied Kim Il Sung, who had to lie about the past affairs of his parents to uphold his cult of personality.”

However, there is evidence suggesting that Kim Il Sung, who harshly suppressed religion, prayed with a doctor before receiving the surgery. Prior to the Korean War, Dr. Jang Ki Ryu, who served as Dean of Medical School at Kim Il Sung University, performed surgery to examine a lump on the back of Kim Il Sung's neck. When the doctor offered to pray before the surgery, Kim Il Sung responded, “Pray for me.” They then prayed together.

Lee Jong Hyuk, a North Korean defector who previously served in the National Security Agency, commented, “If religion had spread to North Korea, there would have been changes in ideological consciousness and spirit among North Korea citizens, who worshipped Kim Il Sung as a god. Perhaps Kim Jong Il [presently] attempts to control citizens' lives and religion activity based on this fear.”

Fears of religious persecution are often assuaged upon a visit to Pyongyang, where there exists a ‘Christian’ church built solely to convince outsiders of North Korea’s ‘religious freedom.’ This, however, is more of a government establishment than a place of worship. Only when North Korea’s underground church network is public and legal will true liberation of religion be accomplished.

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Re: Di Korsel, Kristen jadi simbol nasionalisme & perlawanan terhadap penjajahan

Post by dee-nee on Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:21 am

@Rindu wrote:ngawur, nasionalisme Kristen di Korea udah ada bahkan sebelum AS nyari kepentingan disono

bahkan nasionalisme Kristen di Korea sendiri pd masa sebelum Cold War telah menyatukan korea

bold : kalau nasionalisme Budha di Korea, nasionalisme Konfusionisme di Korea, atau nasionalisme agama2 lain di Korea >>> sudah ada sejak kapan ??

anda bicara nasionalisme itu maksudnya apa toh ?? nasionalisme terkait kemerdekaan Korea untuk menjadi sebuah negara merdeka ... atau nasionalisme yang artinya rasa cinta tanah air ??

kalau anda bicara yang merah : justru Kristen ada belakangan setelah agama2 lokal di Korea >>> dan toh nyatanya mereka2 ini juga punya nasionalisme (rasa cinta tanah air) ... jadi gimana bisa anda bilang bahwa Kristen disebut "simbol" cinta tanah air (nasionalisme) bangsa Korea ?? (judul TS)

kalau anda bicara yang biru : silahkan anda baca uraian anda tentang modernisasi

Modernisers in South Korea in the late 19th century were torn between the American and the Japanese models. Most of the Koreans involved were educated Christians who saw America as their ideal model of civilisation. However, most used Japan as a practical model - as an example of how a fellow East Asian country, which 30 years before was also backward, could succeed in modernising itself. At the same time, reformists' nationalist reaction against the domineering, colonial behaviour of the Japanese in Korea often took the form of an appeal to international (Western) standards of civilisation. The Western-oriented worldview of the early Christian nationalist reformers was complex, multilayered, and often self-contradictory - with 'oppressive' features not easily distinguishable from 'liberational' ones. Their idealised image of the West as the only true, ideal civilisation relegated much of Korea's traditional culture to a position of 'oriental'.

lihat yang size 18 ... ujung2nya Amerika juga toh

--------------------------------------------------------------

btw tentang tulisan saya yang ini ...

Ya iya lah ... wong Korsel butuh Amerika kok buat ngelawan Korut ....

Korsel merasa Korut is penjajah ... so Amerika yang membantu dia (melawan Korut) dianggap melawan penjajah

Padahal Amerika sendiri juga punya kepentingan politik untuk melawan Korut yang komunis

ya .. maaf ... kalimat saya diatas memang jadinya jaka sembung

saya pikir judul TS berkaitan dengan artikel tentang pendapat orang Korsel terhadap Barat (Kristen)
ternyata judul TS itu anda yang buat sendiri ya ... tidak berdasarkan wiki yang anda kasih

maksud saya ... tidak ada juga tulisan dalam wiki yang jelas2 tertulis seperti judul TS

------------------------------------------------------------

kakeknya Kim Il Sung sendiri bahkan adlh seorang PASTOR & ortunya adlh anggota gereja: http://northkoreanchristians.com/kim-ilsung.html

http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?num=7616&cataId=nk01300

Top Secret for North Koreans, Royal Family Was Christian Family

Kang Mi Jin | 2011-04-26 00:21

Many people do not learn of the Kim regime’s Christian heritage until reaching South Korea. North Korean defectors say that they understand why Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il have been afraid of religion’s spread even though their ancestors were faithful adherents to Christianity.

Kim Hyun Sik, a visiting professor at Yale University who defected in 1992 after serving as a Pyongyang College Professor of Education for 38 years, said that Kim Hyong Jik and Kang Ban Sok—Kim Jong Il’s grandparents—were devout Christians. But given that North Koreans live in a society that requires constant idolization of the Supreme Leader, and since outside communications and information are completely shut off, they are unaware of the Kim family’s history.

In North Korea, citizens are organized into three different classes based on their loyalty, or disloyalty to the regime and family background. Unsurprisingly, most religious North Koreans are classified as “hostile class,” placing them in the same group as political prisoners, anti-revolutionary factions, and their families. As a result, these people are routinely discriminated against in almost every aspect of life: entering university, finding employment, and becoming married.

Hyun Mi Kyung, a North Korean defector, states, "When I lived in North Korea I was not aware of that fact, but when I came to South Korea, I learned for the first time that Kim Il Sung's family was devoutly Christian."

Regarding the identification of Kang Ban Sok (1892-1932), Kim Il Sung’s mother and allegedly an elder of a church, Hyun commented that, “North Korean authorities educate and propagandize her as the mother of Chosun who gave birth to and raised the Great Leader of revolution, indomitable Champion of Communism Revolution, and even the champion who conducted the Chosun women's movement by establishing the anti-Japanese women's society organization, which was an independence movement group.”

Likewise, many North Korean defectors regard Kim Hyong Jik (1894-1926), Kim Il Sung’s father, as a patriot who spent his whole life fighting for revolution, and also a great pioneer who shifted the direction of the nationalism movement to communism, purportedly saving the country and its people.

In Kim Il Sung’s memoirs, “With the Century,” he references his parents’ church attendance by commenting, “They went to take a rest (at a church).” Citizens of North Korea are largely unaware of the fact that “Ban Sok”—the name of Kim Il Sung’s mother—comes from the name Peter, who was one of Twelve Apostles of Jesus. Furthermore, Kim Il Sung's uncle served as a minister, and his father, Kim Hyong Jik, was a devout Christian who attended Soongsil School, an undeniably Christian school.

Lee Hyung Sook, a 48-year-old North Korean defector who had settled in China but was repatriated to North Korea in 2007, said, “When I was repatriated to North Korea and received interrogation under the National Security Agency, their first question was 'did you attend a Christian church?' I could not understand why North Korea stifled religion in such a strong way, but when I came to South Korea, I pitied Kim Il Sung, who had to lie about the past affairs of his parents to uphold his cult of personality.”

However, there is evidence suggesting that Kim Il Sung, who harshly suppressed religion, prayed with a doctor before receiving the surgery. Prior to the Korean War, Dr. Jang Ki Ryu, who served as Dean of Medical School at Kim Il Sung University, performed surgery to examine a lump on the back of Kim Il Sung's neck. When the doctor offered to pray before the surgery, Kim Il Sung responded, “Pray for me.” They then prayed together.

Lee Jong Hyuk, a North Korean defector who previously served in the National Security Agency, commented, “If religion had spread to North Korea, there would have been changes in ideological consciousness and spirit among North Korea citizens, who worshipped Kim Il Sung as a god. Perhaps Kim Jong Il [presently] attempts to control citizens' lives and religion activity based on this fear.”

Fears of religious persecution are often assuaged upon a visit to Pyongyang, where there exists a ‘Christian’ church built solely to convince outsiders of North Korea’s ‘religious freedom.’ This, however, is more of a government establishment than a place of worship. Only when North Korea’s underground church network is public and legal will true liberation of religion be accomplished.

nah kalau ini baru saya bisa pake kalimat saya .... artikel ini dari DailyNK kan ... dari site-nya Korsel

maka kembali ke statement saya sebelumnya :

Ya iya lah (dailyNK nulis begitu) ... wong Korsel butuh Amerika kok buat ngelawan Korut ....

Korsel merasa Korut is penjajah ... so Amerika yang membantu dia (melawan Korut) dianggap melawan penjajah

Padahal Amerika sendiri juga punya kepentingan politik untuk melawan Korut yang komunis

lihat tulisan2 merah dan biru diatas ...

yang merah contohnya : anda yakin seperti itu kondisinya ... atau sebetulnya artikel dari DailyNK itu ditulis berat sebelah ??
saya tidak membela Korea Utara disini ... tapi anggap saja ... saya sudah termasuk orang yang tidak bisa percaya 100% dengan media manapun ketika mereka bicara tentang "lawan politik" mereka

kalimat2 itu ga ada bedanya dengan berita2 dari sudut pandang sunni kepada syiah ... atau sudut pandang syiah kepada sunni
kalimat2 itu ga ada bedanya dengan berita2 dari sudut pandang OPM kepada NKRI ... atau sudut pandang NKRI kepada OPM
kalimat2 itu ga ada bedanya dengan berita2 dari sudut pandang Orba kepada PKI ... atau sudut pandang PKI kepada Orba
dan yang jelas ...
kalimat2 itu ga ada bedanya dengan berita2 dari sudut pandang Liberal kepada Sosialis ... atau sudut pandang Sosialis kepada Liberal

wong semua memang ditulis untuk kepentingan masing2 kok (diluar benar dan salah berita2 itu)

sekarang coba lihat juga yang biru : who shifted the direction of the nationalism movement to communism >>> yang menggeser arah gerakan nasionalisme ke komunisme

kalimat itu seolah2 orang komunis tidak punya nasionalisme >>> dan ini buat saya termasuk pendapat "salah kaprah" yang berawal dari klaim bangsa Barat (amerika) itu sendiri

makanya balik ke pertanyaan saya ungu diatas ... anda bicara nasionalisme itu maksudnya apa ??

1. bila nasionalisme diartikan semangat/rasa cinta tanah air (tanah dan wilayah tempat dia ditakdirkan untuk lahir) >>> maka nasionalisme pada dasarnya dimiliki oleh semua orang yang HANYA punya rasa cinta pada takdir yang dia dapat (termasuk umat bergama manapun, temasuk orang dengan ideologi manapun)

2. tapi bila nasionalisme diartikan sebagai gerakan politik untuk membentuk negara yang merdeka dan berdiri sendiri (independent) >>> maka istilah ini memang dimulai sejak kemerdekaan Amerika thn 1776

Amerika memang negara pertama yang proklamasi sebagai negara "baru" yang merdeka dan bebas dari kolonial .... pada waktu itu kan memang Amerika perang melawan Inggris karena ingin memisahkan diri dari kolonial Inggris

sistem kolonial ini di wilayah lain menjadi penjajahan (seperti di Indonesia misalnya) ... atau dilakukan juga oleh negara selain Barat (seperti Jepang misalnya)

berdiri-nya negara Amerika ini kemudian menjadi inspirasi bagi bangsa2 di seluruh dunia yang ada dibawah kolonialisasi/penjajahan manapun ... yang kemudian disebut gerakan nasionalisme

gerakan nasionalisme ala Amerika ini sebetulnya berikut perangkat-nya yang mereka namakan demokrasi, termasuk liberalisasi, kapitalisme dsb (dari sudut pandang politik dan ekonomi)

dan karena Amerika musuhan dengan Rusia setelah PD II ... maka muncul stereo-type ... bahwa seolah2 yang punya "nasionalisme" cuma mereka2 yang modelnya seperti yang hijau underline .... sementara komunis atau sosialis tidak dianggap bagian dari gerakan nasionalisme

padahal kalau dilihat dari sejarah pendirian negara Amerika saja ... bangsa inipun berdiri atas nama penjajahan, okupasi wilayah dan pembantaian (kepada suku indian)

oot sebentar wrote:sama kasus-nya seperti di Indonesia yang akhirnya terbentuk kata "nasakom" era orla ...
seolah2 mereka yang agamis dan komunis ini tidak nasionalis (padahal cuma karena model-nya saja yang ga seperti Amerika)

boomerang-nya .... akhirnya masuk juga ke kepala beberapa orang2 agamis dan komunis bahwa seolah2 orang nasionalis adalah antek Amerika (Liberal, Kapitalis, dsb)

padahal Sukarno yang jelas adalah nasionalis bisa disebut orang yang agamis ... juga termasuk sosialis

yang OOT ini ga usah dibahas ... tapi saya hanya ingin bilang bahwa semua itu jatuhnya strero-type, mind-set, opini, persepsi yang berkembang di masing2 orang

karena kalau anda liat deskripsi wiki tentang Nasionalisme .... ga ada hubungan sama sekali dengan tulisan biru DailyNK itu

so balik ke judul TS >>> nasionalisme model apa yang akhirnya menjadikan Kristen sebagai simbol-nya ??

kalau nasionalisme secara umum yang artinya cinta tanah air >>> maka siapapun di Korea (termasuk Korut dan Korsel) yang merasa punya ikatan dengan tanah kelahiran mereka ... pasti punya nasionalisme yang sama ... jauh sebelum kedatangan Kristen ke wilayah itu

tapi kalau maksudnya nasionalisme ala Amerika ... ya silahkan anda bilang Kristen sebagai simbol nasionalisme model begini .... tapi jangan lupa baca juga tulisan saya yang pink diatas

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Re: Di Korsel, Kristen jadi simbol nasionalisme & perlawanan terhadap penjajahan

Post by Rindu on Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:54 pm



di korea penduduk protestan + katolik kalo dijumlahin lebih banyak dibanding penganut buddha

meskipun penganut buddha ditambah penganut konghucu, ajaran tradisional dll dll

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Re: Di Korsel, Kristen jadi simbol nasionalisme & perlawanan terhadap penjajahan

Post by Rindu on Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:54 pm

7 dr 11 presiden korsel adlh penganut Kristen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_South_Korea#List_of_presidents

1. Syngman Rhee <-- Kristen Methodis
2. Yun Bo-seon <- Kristen Presbiterian
3. Park Chung-hee <- Buddha
4. Choi Kyu-hah <- Neo-Konfusianisme
5. Chun Doo-hwan <- Katolik convert ke Buddha
6. Roh Tae-woo <- Buddha convert ke Protestan
7. Kim Young-sam <- Kristen Presbiterian
8. Kim Dae-jung <- Kristen Katolik
9. Roh Moo-hyun <- Kristen Katolik
10. Lee Myung-bak <- Kristen Presbiterian
11. Park Geun-hye <- Ateis tp punya pengaruh Buddha & Katolik

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Re: Di Korsel, Kristen jadi simbol nasionalisme & perlawanan terhadap penjajahan

Post by Rindu on Mon Feb 29, 2016 1:56 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_Japan#Christian_Prime_Ministers

Christian Prime Ministers

While Christians represent fewer than 1%[1][2][3] of the population, there have been eight Christian Prime Ministers in Japan.

Roman Catholic


  • Hara Takashi – leader of the 19th government and the 10th Prime Minister.
  • Shigeru Yoshida – leader of the 45th, 48th, 49th, 50th, and 51st governments and the 32nd Prime Minister.
  • Taro Aso – leader of the 92nd government and the 59th Prime Minister.

Protestant


  • Viscount Takahashi Korekiyo – leader of the 20th government and the 11th Prime Minister.
  • Tetsu Katayama – leader of the 46th government and the 33rd Prime Minister.
  • Ichirō Hatoyama – leader the 52nd, 53rd, and 54th governments and the 35th Prime Minister.
  • Masayoshi Ōhira – leader of the 68th and 69th governments and the 43rd Prime Minister.
  • Yukio Hatoyama – leader of the 94th government and the 60th Prime Minister.

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Re: Di Korsel, Kristen jadi simbol nasionalisme & perlawanan terhadap penjajahan

Post by dee-nee on Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:04 pm

Trus memang kenapa dengan semua data itu ??
Mau anda bilang korsel sekarang 100% kristen pun

point-nya tetap ga berubah ... bahwa jiwa NASIONALISME (CINTA TANAH AIR) sudah ada di Korea jauh sebelum Kristen masuk ke Korea

yang mengajarkan nasionalisme (cinta tanah air) BUKAN AGAMA MANAPUN .... jiwa nasionalisme itu sudah tumbuh dengan sendirinya terkait tanah tempat setiap manusia lahir

kecuali bagi orang2 yang memang ga pernah tau yang namanya bersyukur terkait takdir dimana dia lahir ... maka orang2 seperti ini jatuhnya memang tidak punya nasionalisme dan mungkin hanya bisa nempel2 dengan bangsa lain

tapi point-nya tetap yang bold underline diatas

Apa menurut anda rasa cinta pada orang tua juga cuma diajarkan oleh Kristen ??

apa bedanya coba cinta orang tua dengan cinta tanah air >>> wong dua2nya memang sikap/perilaku manusia pada apa yang sudah menjadi takdir-nya kok

maka saya ulang

so ... nasionalisme model apa yang akhirnya menjadikan Kristen sebagai simbol-nya ??

1. kalau nasionalisme secara umum yang artinya cinta tanah air >>> maka siapapun di Korea (termasuk Korut dan Korsel) yang merasa punya ikatan dengan tanah kelahiran mereka ... pasti punya nasionalisme yang sama ... jauh sebelum kedatangan Kristen ke wilayah itu

2. tapi kalau maksudnya nasionalisme ala Amerika ... ya silahkan anda bilang Kristen sebagai simbol nasionalisme model begini .... tapi jangan lupa baca juga tulisan saya yang pink diatas

padahal kalau dilihat dari sejarah pendirian negara Amerika saja ... bangsa inipun berdiri atas nama penjajahan, okupasi wilayah dan pembantaian (kepada suku indian)

sampai sekarang pertanyaan saya yang merah saja anda belum jawab
walaupun sebetulnya .... dari TS sudah terbaca bahwa yang anda maksud adalah nasionalisme point 2
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Re: Di Korsel, Kristen jadi simbol nasionalisme & perlawanan terhadap penjajahan

Post by Rindu on Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:46 am

Jadi ingat Paul Nobuo Tastuguchi, seorang dokter Kristen & didikan Amrik tp pd waktu PD2 berdinas sebagai tentara Jepang padahal pada saat itu Amrik lagi perang ama Jepang

https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Nobuo_Tatsuguchi

Buku harian Tatsuguchi ditemukan oleh pasukan Amerika dan diterjemahkan ke dalam bahasa Inggris. Seusai pertempuran, salinan terjemahan disebarluaskan dan dipublikasikan di Amerika Serikat. Publik Amerika dibuat tercengang oleh kisah Tatsuguchi, seorang Kristen sekaligus dokter didikan Amerika, namun berdinas sebagai tentara Jepang di Pulau Attu. Apalagi setelah dirinya pada hari-hari terakhir pertempuran berperan dalam membantu mempercepat kematian tentara Jepang yang terluka dan menjadi pasiennya di rumah sakit lapangan. Terjemahan dari ringkasan buku harian Tatsuguchi telah banyak dikutip dalam catatan sejarah Barat mengenai pertempuran tersebut, terutama lema terakhir yang berisi pesan perpisahan untuk keluarga.

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Re: Di Korsel, Kristen jadi simbol nasionalisme & perlawanan terhadap penjajahan

Post by dee-nee on Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:08 pm

dan apa hubungannya Paul Nobuo Tatsuguchi dengan nasionalisme Korsel >>> seperti judul TS yang anda tulis

kok dari ngomongin Korsel ujug2 pindah ke Jepang ... padahal waktu itu Jepang juga sedang melakukan koloniasasi pada Korea (selatan dan utara)

apa kristen-nya Paul Nobuo Tatsuguchi mau anda bilang sebagai symbol nasionalisme Korea ??

>>> sementara menurut sudut pandang Korsel ... justru Paul Nobuo Tatsuguchi adalah bagian dari penjajahan itu sendiri (diluar dari apakah dia kristen atau tidak)

--------------------------------

makanya toh ... apapun yang anda bawa ... intinya pertanyaan saya belum anda jawab

so ... nasionalisme model apa yang akhirnya menjadikan Kristen sebagai simbol-nya ??
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Re: Di Korsel, Kristen jadi simbol nasionalisme & perlawanan terhadap penjajahan

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